Review of my debate with Ijaz Ahmad on "Jesus the Christ man, God, or Both".



Review of my debate with Ijaz Ahmad on "Jesus the Christ man, God, or Both".

If you have not listened to the audio of the debate please take a little time and do so now. link HERE.
I focused on presenting evidence from the only set of first century documents that we possess from the time of Christ and his followers, to prove that both Jesus and his followers proclaimed that Christ is both God and man. My opponent did not even address one minute of my 20 minute opening statement. So since he did not dispute any of it, it seems quite logical to assume he agrees that the New Testament teaches Christ is God incarnate. I also defended my use of the N.T., not as the Word of God or inspired scripture (which it is), but simply as 1st century historical documents which provide us with reliable information on the historical Jesus and his first followers. If you pay close attention especially during the Q&A, my opponent admitted that the N.T was written in the 1st century. Moreover, Ijaz admitted that he could not produce any historical evidence for Islam's conspiratorial and alternative view of Christian history. With that the debate was really finished before it even really begun.
What my opponent Ijaz did bring forward as proof, was his accusation that the N.T was somehow a "revisionist" "ad hoc" document that revised the meaning of Messiah as taught in the Old Testament. Unfortunately despite his many attempts to change the subject, the status of the N.T was not the thesis of the debate, nor was it a discussion on what the O.T. teaches concerning the Messiah.
However, since he raised this objection against Christianity, and employed this line of argumentation to nullify my use of the N.T. writings, I would like to therefore ask Ijaz if he is willing to apply this same criterion to his own Islamic religion?
This is for Ijaz Ahmad or any Muslim apologist. Can you please show me where I can find the following Islamic teachings in the Old Testament?
1. The Messiah would be born of a virgin.

2. The Messiah is Allah’s Word which he would cast down to his mother and a spirit that proceeds from him.

3. The Messiah would speak as a baby, raise the dead, fashion clay birds and breathe life into them thereby animating them, give sight to the blind, and heal lepers.

3. The Messiah would announce the coming of an Arabian prophet named Ahmed.

4. The Messiah would escape crucifixion.

5. The Messiah would come twice.

6. The Messiah would be taken to be with Allah himself during his first coming without being killed by crucifixion.

7. The Messiah would descend to Damascus at his second coming.

7. The Messiah would lead an army to fight a contingent of the Jews.

8. The Messiah would kill the Antichrist at the gate of Ludd.

10. The Messiah will rule for a number of years then die a natural death, and be buried in Mecca.
(The above statements can be easily verified by consulting the Quran, ahadith, and any book on Islamic aqidah. In fact, I would highly recommend getting a work about the major & minor signs of the end times like Dr. Shaykh Muhammad Al Areefi's The End of the World: Major and Minor Signs of the Hour).
Again can Ijaz or any other Muslim Imam, Shaykh, or apologist be so kind as to show us from the Torah and the writings of the previous messengers collectively known as the O.T., where we can find the above items predicted concerning the Messiah? If Ijaz or anyone else cannot show us where these uniquely Islamic beliefs can be found in the O.T., will you admit that the Islamic conception of the Messiah is nothing more than a "revision" of what the Hebrew Bible says concerning his role and identify? Can you avoid imposing your ad hoc confirmation bias upon the O.T. teaching in order to objectively prove that the Israelite prophets prophesied all the things that Islam teaches concerning the Messiah?
Ijaz said the Jews of Christ's time rejected him and Christianity increasingly became a Greek religion. Ijaz says that this was because the Jews were not expecting a divine messiah. In light of this, can Ijaz be so kind as to prove to us that the Jews from the 1st century were expecting an Islamic Messiah, without resorting to his ad hoc confirmation bias?
If not then shouldn’t we take your argumentation to its logical conclusion and conclude that the Islamic Messiah is a figment of Muhammad’s overactive imagination, specifically being a result of Muslim revisionism being imposed upon the Hebrew Bible in order to force it to agree with Islamic theology by perverting its original meaning and intent?
Islam and Christianity share some of the same views concerning the Messiah, and most of them cannot be found explicitly spelled out in the O.T. So please explain to us how can we accept these beliefs about the Messiah to be true since they are not in the O.T..
I just want to help you to be logically consistent, so you can thank me later.
We are waiting for your answer or your announcement you have left Islam.

3 comments:

  1. No official reply as of yet, but the following was posted on callingchristians facebook page.

    " CL Edwards made a 'review' post of the debate on his website which was 90% less of a review and more of 'questioning Ijaz Ahmad', when he realised nobody cared about that post, he created a Youtube video of him reading the very same article. I've watched it 20 times so far and spread it among my friends for some comedy relief. Funny guy, got to give him that. "

    ReplyDelete
  2. Dear CL,

    Ijaz is arrogant and a William Lane Craig wannabe. Somehow feels using words which suits a WLC or a James White makes him one... He has been touting himself to be 20 years for quite some time now. Somehow i feel you went easy on him... pompous asses such as these need a Sam Shamoun to show them their true levels. Don't bother with him.

    God Bless

    N

    ReplyDelete
  3. http://bibledefence.wordpress.com/2013/01/17/sam-shamoun-responds-to-the-ijaz-edwards-debate/

    ReplyDelete

 

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